Chapter Six
Today will see the completion of Chapter Six.
As I predicted in my last update, it was a more difficult chapter to write than what had come before. One of the major conflict points of the entire series had to be set up and I wanted it to be done right. It was a Richard McAllister point of view chapter, and although Richard comes quite easily to me as a character, the story aspect had to be handled delicately. A lot of conflict. And that was just the first half of the chapter.
The second half is Richard with his fellow knights. In this part of the chapter, which I am finishing up, the reader meets the other six knights and gets a good solid taste of who they are. It took me some time to develop them, to know their stories, to know their strengths and weaknesses, and to make them believable. They come from Seattle, Chicago, Betwys y Coed, London, Paris, Rome and Vienna. If you look at all of those cities, you'll see a commonality; I'll leave you to find it (it's not hard). I can't wait for you to meet them. Some of them with enter and reenter the series at different points when it is necessary.
Now, for a bit of good news, both writing and business news.
First, I received a rejection letter for Fell Hammer in the mail over the weekend. You may be asking yourself, "How can that be good news, Shawn?" Well, if an agent or editor has decided to give you a well thought out response, it can be invaluable information to have. The editor in question enjoyed the intricate story (his words, not mine, I don't think the book is intricate at all), enjoyed the characters, and enjoyed my style. But the areas where I needed to improve, he said, were with the development of those characters, their dialogue, and how every character seems to just say what is needed for the story.
Now, the latter part of that is semi-problematic. I come from the Terry Brooks school of thought where you put what is needed in the story to either drive the story forward or give the reader a better understanding of the character. Extraneous conversation, even if it is more life-like, can bog the scene down for the sake of genuine conversation. So I am of two minds on that one—I will probably try to give a bit more and see what happens.
As for his other comments, he was right on. Character development and dialog. How do I know he is right? Because I saw it myself when I went back and read some of it a month ago. And I am happy to see, in my own writer's progression, that my dialogue and character development is much much much much improved in this new book. Growth equals opportunity, and if I am still growing as a writer it means my opportunities in New York also grow.
As for the second bit of news, an agent contacted me 10 or so days ago—on a Saturday, no less. Completely out of the blue and unprovoked by me. How did that happen, you may ask and who is the agent? This speaks to the importance of networking and putting yourself out there and making friends at writing retreats and conventions. If you haven't believed me about the power of networking, than you should believe it now after I tell you what happened.
Robin Hobb aka Megan Lindholm came to visit me two weeks ago. Megan had asked to do a signing with The Signed Page for the US release of Renegade's Magic and since Megan is one of my favorite people I said sure. I've known her for six or seven years and she's one of the sweetest and smartest writers I have had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know.
When she came to Seattle, we talked about anything and everything as usual. Then she asked me if I had found an agent yet and how the new book was coming along. I told her the current book is writing itself, that I am really excited about it, and I think that Del Rey and any other publisher who reads it will like it. She knew that Del Rey had passed on Fell Hammer but had asked to read my second effort.
She then proceeds to tell me that her agent is looking for new fantasy writers and asked if she could talk to him about me. I was just shocked. To her understanding, if a publisher asks to see more work from a writer, it must mean the writer has something worth reading. After questioning Megan about her agent and how she feels about him, I told her to tell the agent to look me up, read the Prologue, and if he is so inclined to write me an email and we'll talk.
The agent, it turns out, is Ralph Vicinanza, foreign rights expert and agent for multiple bestselling writers, including Stephen King.
I received Ralph's email with openness and with excitement. Here I hadn't even solicited him and he was soliciting my work. He asked to read my first four or five chapters of the new book, despite it not being done, and he'd let me know what he thought. How kind is that?
Since I don't usually edit my books until the end, I was in a bit of a predicament. I want him to have the chapters but I want them edited first. The good news is my editing ex-girlfriend has offered to do it; she is already hard at work on them and hopefully in the next few weeks I'll have something to show Ralph. In the meantime, I'll be working on those edits as well as writing, so my output will probably decrease a bit with the additional workload. But it is worth it—this is an opportunity I can't pass up no matter what it does to my schedule.
I am going to give Ralph the first 1/3 of The Dagda King. It should give him a fair understanding of what I am trying to accomplish. And I guess I'll know relatively quickly if I have something or not. I hope I do.
Cool Note: He asked for the chapters in .txt format because he reads on Amazon's Kindle. Super cool.
So don't forget: networking is your friend! You never know how building friendships and relationships will help you in this twisted journey.
As I predicted in my last update, it was a more difficult chapter to write than what had come before. One of the major conflict points of the entire series had to be set up and I wanted it to be done right. It was a Richard McAllister point of view chapter, and although Richard comes quite easily to me as a character, the story aspect had to be handled delicately. A lot of conflict. And that was just the first half of the chapter.
The second half is Richard with his fellow knights. In this part of the chapter, which I am finishing up, the reader meets the other six knights and gets a good solid taste of who they are. It took me some time to develop them, to know their stories, to know their strengths and weaknesses, and to make them believable. They come from Seattle, Chicago, Betwys y Coed, London, Paris, Rome and Vienna. If you look at all of those cities, you'll see a commonality; I'll leave you to find it (it's not hard). I can't wait for you to meet them. Some of them with enter and reenter the series at different points when it is necessary.
Now, for a bit of good news, both writing and business news.
First, I received a rejection letter for Fell Hammer in the mail over the weekend. You may be asking yourself, "How can that be good news, Shawn?" Well, if an agent or editor has decided to give you a well thought out response, it can be invaluable information to have. The editor in question enjoyed the intricate story (his words, not mine, I don't think the book is intricate at all), enjoyed the characters, and enjoyed my style. But the areas where I needed to improve, he said, were with the development of those characters, their dialogue, and how every character seems to just say what is needed for the story.
Now, the latter part of that is semi-problematic. I come from the Terry Brooks school of thought where you put what is needed in the story to either drive the story forward or give the reader a better understanding of the character. Extraneous conversation, even if it is more life-like, can bog the scene down for the sake of genuine conversation. So I am of two minds on that one—I will probably try to give a bit more and see what happens.
As for his other comments, he was right on. Character development and dialog. How do I know he is right? Because I saw it myself when I went back and read some of it a month ago. And I am happy to see, in my own writer's progression, that my dialogue and character development is much much much much improved in this new book. Growth equals opportunity, and if I am still growing as a writer it means my opportunities in New York also grow.
As for the second bit of news, an agent contacted me 10 or so days ago—on a Saturday, no less. Completely out of the blue and unprovoked by me. How did that happen, you may ask and who is the agent? This speaks to the importance of networking and putting yourself out there and making friends at writing retreats and conventions. If you haven't believed me about the power of networking, than you should believe it now after I tell you what happened.
Robin Hobb aka Megan Lindholm came to visit me two weeks ago. Megan had asked to do a signing with The Signed Page for the US release of Renegade's Magic and since Megan is one of my favorite people I said sure. I've known her for six or seven years and she's one of the sweetest and smartest writers I have had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know.
When she came to Seattle, we talked about anything and everything as usual. Then she asked me if I had found an agent yet and how the new book was coming along. I told her the current book is writing itself, that I am really excited about it, and I think that Del Rey and any other publisher who reads it will like it. She knew that Del Rey had passed on Fell Hammer but had asked to read my second effort.
She then proceeds to tell me that her agent is looking for new fantasy writers and asked if she could talk to him about me. I was just shocked. To her understanding, if a publisher asks to see more work from a writer, it must mean the writer has something worth reading. After questioning Megan about her agent and how she feels about him, I told her to tell the agent to look me up, read the Prologue, and if he is so inclined to write me an email and we'll talk.
The agent, it turns out, is Ralph Vicinanza, foreign rights expert and agent for multiple bestselling writers, including Stephen King.
I received Ralph's email with openness and with excitement. Here I hadn't even solicited him and he was soliciting my work. He asked to read my first four or five chapters of the new book, despite it not being done, and he'd let me know what he thought. How kind is that?
Since I don't usually edit my books until the end, I was in a bit of a predicament. I want him to have the chapters but I want them edited first. The good news is my editing ex-girlfriend has offered to do it; she is already hard at work on them and hopefully in the next few weeks I'll have something to show Ralph. In the meantime, I'll be working on those edits as well as writing, so my output will probably decrease a bit with the additional workload. But it is worth it—this is an opportunity I can't pass up no matter what it does to my schedule.
I am going to give Ralph the first 1/3 of The Dagda King. It should give him a fair understanding of what I am trying to accomplish. And I guess I'll know relatively quickly if I have something or not. I hope I do.
Cool Note: He asked for the chapters in .txt format because he reads on Amazon's Kindle. Super cool.
So don't forget: networking is your friend! You never know how building friendships and relationships will help you in this twisted journey.
Labels: Agent, The Dagda King
posted by Shawn C. Speakman | 9:04 AM
13 Comments:
Wow, Fantastic news Shawn!! In the years to come, when you get 2-50 comments a day on each post, don't forget those of us who loved the sight in its infancy. I was wondering where you were, but it looks like you had good cause for not being around for a week or so. and btw, a.k.a Robin Hobb is one of my favorite people too, I don't actually know her, but any one who has given me so many great books and great charactars, is worthy of high esteem in my eyes.
Congrats Shawn!
We really need to get online and talk a bit, there seems to be a lot going on for both of us these days!
I just finished up Chapter Six also, which is the first natural break in my story, so I think it's about time we traded and tore each other apart!
~aidan
A Dribble of Ink
Sean: I've been really busy other than writing. But I am still happy with where I am in the process and as long as I put words down every single day, I don't mind letting life get in the way. Life is what we should be experiencing anyway, and so much of it goes into our writing you can't have one without the other.
At least that's the way it is with me.
Aidan: I'm trying to stay away from online endeavors at the moment. It's the reason I made Court a moderator today. No MSN. No Yahoo. No Forum. No net surfing. I'm just trying to focus on my life away from the computer as well as the writing.
When Rachelle finishes editing my chapters, we can exchange. I'm interested to see where you are taking your story, as we are sharing Celtic myths. Just keep writing. You'll get to the end of writing your book before I will probably, and then you get to harass the writers you've interviewed for agent suggestions. You'll see how easy it can be once you've broken in and made a name for yourself.
Chapter Six won't stop. It will be the largest chapter of the book, going above and beyond the average of the others. I knew this was going to happen; it's a Richard POV chapter and he has a lot to say to move the story forward. Grr.
At least the next chapter will be shorter, and will begin the build to the Interlude chapter.
Hey Shawn, glad to hear chapter six has all the stubborness of an overflowing toilet, lol, jk.
I have a question that I would appreciate your take on. How, in your opinion, would one go about working up a querry letter for a book along the lines of R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings series?
You couldn't very well follow the standard format, given the book so thoroughly covers so many different POVs w/out there being a true MAIN CHARACTAR.
I find there is a slight similiarity in this to my own book, and am unsure how to handle this in my Querry--tho my book is not on the same scale, or class-sadly-as Martins. The plot line of what leads my antagonist to his ultimate part is every bit as central as the plot line that leads my protaginist to defeat him. To only represent my hero in the querry would be to castrate the story.
You probly don't remember, but you looked over my original querry and suggested I take out anything about the antagonist's side. I have tried and cannot reconcile this, to know the story is to know it needs to be addressed.
Side Note: I had a wonderful, poetic querry, you killed it and made me open my eyes. Oh how I'm glad I didn't send out that piece of self-rightous fluff dooming my career before it could begin. I would have a stack of rejection letters three foot high, and wonder where I failed. For that, I offer you my heart-felt, sincere thanks. You da man!
thanks,
sean
Sean: A query letter is not meant to tell the agent or editor what your book is about.
A query letter is about making an agent or editor interested enough in your project for them to ask for pages.
Those two things are very very different. One is a summary, the other is a tease.
You must tease and entice—you must seduce—the agent or editor. And as with most seduction it must be handled with delicate touches.
I think all that which comes before this sentence is a fact. What is forthcoming is merely my opinion.
In fiction, the reader and publishing world are not interested in the evil. Sure, evil is fun, but evil doesn't teach us anything about ourselves. That is the role of the protagonist. If a book had evil winning as its climax, the reader would rebel. The only way evil teaches us anything about ourselves is if that evil resides in our likable protagonist.
So, what to do? You can certainly throw in the other side in the conflict, but an agent or editor doesn't care about that. In the RR Martin case, his query would have focused on the Starks with a very brief mention of the other ruling families trying to tear the Starks down. He would not have gone into detail about the Lannisters; the story is ultimately about the Starks.
So I would say use that as your template.
Now, here are some other things for you to consider. I'm not saying these are true of your work but these things are believed in New York.
1) New, unpublished writers have a very hard time doing what RR Martin does. Handling so many characters is a tenuous juggling act. Most writing retreats, which are run by editors, agents, and writers, will tell the new writer to focus on a two or three character POV book their first time out. It's simply because the new writer hasn't developed the skills to handle so many points of view and have it make each chapter worthwhile -- something even RR Martin fails with sometimes if you are paying close attention.
I'm not saying this is you. But the multiple POV case is something all agents and editors are aware of. On one hand, saying your book is like RR Martin is a great boon and should garner interest because his story is doing so well in readership and sales. On the other hand, these people you send your query to will look at a new writer trying to handle what a very experienced RR Martin started and wonder if a new writer can pull it off. It is a double edged sword you will have to navigate lightly through.
2) Currently, due to paper and publishing costs, a large book is frowned upon right now. There are no books the size of A Game of Thrones or Eye of the World being published right now. Perhaps TOR has published a few, but that's pretty much it. There is a bottom line financial reason for that, and many publishers are going with books in the 90K-120K word range as opposed to the 200+K range. Fell Hammer undoubtedly had that going against it when it made its rounds.
If your story is like RR Martin's and there are a lot of POV characters, it must be large. That is one more thing to consider.
At the end of the day, write what stimulates you. But also when night settles, don't be angry if you are turned down for these problems. It's the nature of the beast and we have to seduce that beast.
In your query letter, be tactful about the POV/Martin comparisons and the size of your book. Tease the agent or editor. If you do so, you'll be asked for pages and that's what you are really wanting. If you have written a quality book that won't be denied, the pages will speak for themselves and there will have been no need to mention the things that might hinder that look.
Thanks Sean, you pretty much answered my question dead on. Really the mention of R.R. Martin was just to get us into a certain mindframe which worked. Like I said, very slight similairity. I'm following the braid of 3 main POVs as they weave in and out of 3 Plot lines. 118,000 words, so it looks like i'm in the warm up circle, hopefully i can get up to the plate and take a few swings.
Sorry, I spelled your name with my spelling :( it reads very wierd, but all the same, thanks shawn
Great man, I'm keeping my finger's crossed for you.
Good Luck!
10 pages. And still going.
This is an instance where writing to an outline can be unpredictable. I had every intention of Chapter Six being a 7 page chapter. After getting into it, and having minor revelations about how to move the story forward, it has now grown to 10 and I'm not done.
It has a natural break right in the middle. I have a feeling this chapter will have to be split into two distinct chapters. That's fine. I don't mind. It just goes to show how the story can take over for the betterment of the story from time to time.
I am showing a very small part of Avalon, an isle in the middle of a lake, for the first time in the second half, and that's why it is longer than I thought it would be.
Just thought I'd share to show I'm not entirely a robot about all of this. haha
Shawn, I've got a question I'm hoping you can answer.
Do you have a rough idea of the average "settings" for Hardback and Mass Market books are?
I'd like to take a chapter of mine into Adobe Indesign and lay it out to look as it would as a real novel. I suppose what I'm looking for are:
Page Dimensions
Margins
Font size
etc...
I'm gearing up to send out some samples of my current story to a few select readers and I'd like it to look as nice and professional as possible.
Can you offer any advice?
~Aidan
Mightier than the Sword
Aidan: The only advice I can give is to use the dimensions of the books on your shelf. That's what I did. Then I put them into In Design, produced .pdfs, printed them off, and matched them against the book. If they were off, I adjusted them in In Design... until they were right or I was at least happy with them.
I will say this: Beware of widows and orphans. If you don't know what I mean, look those terms up in Google. Also, beware of how many times your program splits words and hyphenates them between lines. Usually adjusting the tracking for that paragraph will be all the fix you'll have to do.
Good luck! I really enjoy producing clean chapters that people can read. You'll have a whole new appreciation of your work when you see it how New York would produce it.
I glad to read about your news, Shawn. That is fantastic!! This agent seems pretty well connected. Good luck with the editing, and I hope we...er, I mean the agent gets to view the finished project soon.
And as I said on your posting about Chapters 6 and 7, I am very excited about meeting other knights besides Richard.
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